DUST Search - Swarm Launchers

Buzzwords wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile.

Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles.

And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns.

this is just factually incorrect.

a militia swarm launcher deals 350 dmg per missile and fires 4 missiles per shot. 1,400 damage per shot. oh and it locks onto stuff. cool beans right?

a standard forge gun (as there is no militia tier to compare it against) deals 1,200 damage per shot.

and as for tank projectiles, i can only assume you mean to compare against railguns? even railguns shoot faster, are laser beam accurate, can be aimed, have infinite ammo, and can fire more shots before an overheat than a forge gun can before reload. not to mention that they can be strapped onto a marauder for a 50% damage bonus, making them THEN do DRAMATICALLY more damage than a forge gun while having all those other nice traits.

and as for being used against infantry, the notion is laughable. the basic model deals 210 damage as splash.. a MILITIA assault suit has 300 health with NO skills and NO modules. if it one shots you, shake the hand of the man who wields it, because he hit you with it directly. a gun that cannot be aimed, needs a 3.5 second charge time, cuts his movement speed in half, and even makes his hipfire crosshairs rattle around while he builds or holds that charge. oh and he doesn't even get a UI indication to let him know when it's charged. he has to just guess, or get his timing DOWN.

though i will admit that there are situations in thick structure where the swarm launchers scattered launch makes it very difficult to connect with more than half it's missiles. but if you can't hit something at ALL, that's operator error, not the launcher.

anyone who thinks a forge gun is overpowered, i officially DARE you to actually USE it.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 09:59:00 - [1] - Quote Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile. Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles. And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:10:00 - [2] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Forge Gun can deal more direct-shot damage than a tank projectile. Swarm Launchers are NOWHERE NEAR the firepower of Forge Guns, and there are plenty of situations where the FG has an advantage just from the sheer fact that the target is in a place you CAN'T HIT with a Swarm, but CAN hit with FG projectiles. And at short- to mid-range, FGs are good anti-infantry with the ability to one-shot almost everything. Swarms, not so much. They can provide good anti-infantry support, with explosions distracting enemies, but they're FAR less effective at it than Forge Guns. this is just factually incorrect. a militia swarm launcher deals 350 dmg per missile and fires 4 missiles per shot. 1,400 damage per shot. oh and it locks onto stuff. cool beans right? a standard forge gun (as there is no militia tier to compare it against) deals 1,200 damage per shot. and as for tank projectiles, i can only assume you mean to compare against railguns? even railguns shoot faster, are laser beam accurate, can be aimed, have infinite ammo, and can fire more shots before an overheat than a forge gun can before reload. not to mention that they can be strapped onto a marauder for a 50% damage bonus, making them THEN do DRAMATICALLY more damage than a forge gun while having all those other nice traits. and as for being used against infantry, the notion is laughable. the basic model deals 210 damage as splash.. a MILITIA assault suit has 300 health with NO skills and NO modules. if it one shots you, shake the hand of the man who wields it, because he hit you with it directly. a gun that cannot be aimed, needs a 3.5 second charge time, cuts his movement speed in half, and even makes his hipfire crosshairs rattle around while he builds or holds that charge. oh and he doesn't even get a UI indication to let him know when it's charged. he has to just guess, or get his timing DOWN. though i will admit that there are situations in thick structure where the swarm launchers scattered launch makes it very difficult to connect with more than half it's missiles. but if you can't hit something at ALL, that's operator error, not the launcher. anyone who thinks a forge gun is overpowered, i officially DARE you to actually USE it. When did I say the Forge Gun is OP? I'm pretty sure I didn't, because I don't think it is. Sorry if you got that impression from me saying that the Swarm Launcher isn't OP. Check the stats all the way up the tiers, not just at the baseline. Forge Guns gain a LOT more power than Swarms. And I said they CAN one-shot any infantry, not that it's easy to do so. Swarms can't even one-shot a Militia Scout. If you end up in close quarters (but outside knife range) with enemy infantry, the Swarm Launcher quite simply WILL NOT hit the target, and if by some miracle they manage to place themselves into the path of one of your missiles, in the current build, the damage dealt to infantry is so massively reduced that it won't matter. Your Forge Gun splash, which is EASY to land, has a good chance of one-shotting a Militia Scout, even with and armour mod. If I get so impossibly lucky that I have a direct hit AND catch the target in a second missile's splash, there's still literally NO chance of a kill unless the target has already taken damage. If you want to talk about mid-range, Swarms get some of their accuracy back, but not enough to make up for the projectile speed, which results in them still being completely useless in anything but a surprise attack, and even then they're only a distraction rather than an actual method of dealing damage to a Dropsuit. And my comment about there being times where it's easier to hit a vehicle with a Forge Gun than Swarms? You never did address that properly. If there's a small gap you need to try and fire through, whether that's because you're in cover or because there's something that's not quite in the way (like trying to shoot a tank near C while you're back behind the pipes), the Forge Gun will fire where you aim it, and deal damage. Swarm missiles will scatter, then hit the walls instead of the target, and unless you're either good or lucky, you'll be cutting your attacks in half. Another advantage the Forge Gun has is the ability to stay in cover while charging. It's possible to time things so you step out with the Forge Gun, and the first time your target gets to see you is a half-second before you fire. Swarm Launchers can't do that. They have to get line of sight before they can even start the lock-on process, then you have a delay - DURING WHICH THE TARGET OFTEN KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE - before you can fire.